SimCity: Societies!

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[pad11]

Just thought I'd start a thread on our good friends at TM's take on SC...Societies!

Two initial thoughts...Loving the initial screenies!  A Lot!, but as CB so often fears, methinks this will be a system taxer for sure!

Second...what on EARTH is going on with the SC fans going balistic over this?  The concept that TMs games are easier than SimCity is very unfair and off base...fact is, they are DIFFERENT...to me, the urban simulator is more about being a 'mayor', taking, etc....A CB is a different breed altogether...I can sympathise with complaints about 'changes in gameplay style'...if you like something, you don't see a need for it to change...but anyone saying that Caesar 4 is 'easier' or a dumbed down version of anything has obviously NEVER played Caesar IV on HARD.

Now, that said, it appears that the real heart and soul of the Simtropolis has realized that the outspoken few went overboard...I also think they are actually pleasantly surprised by the interaction they're getting from TMs folks....

Still, from afar, it's interesting to watch...but a bit painful as well....

pat!

[City Builder]

I agree.

EA has released very little in regards to societies and I would wonder if this is because they really don't want things getting totally out of hand with complaints.  I read the brief interview with the EA rep and about the only information he released was two things:
1. That the game was about different cultures and societies so we would be allowed to build cities that are from differeing cultures or societies AND
2. That they would hope to release some more information in the next several weeks.

This game will suffer mainly due to performance/size issues I believe.  We will either be stuck with maps that are ridiculously small to play on, or performance will be incredibly bad on all but the latest and greatest and even on the latest and greatest, performance may not be so hot.

I don't know any details of this but it wouldn't suprise me if TM used a slightly modified Caesar IV engine to build SimCity: Societies.  The problem that I would see with this is mainly a performance issue.  Building extremely large cities in Caesar IV on say the Roma map would bring most computers to their knees, and if we look at the size of that type of city compared to a traditional SimCity 4 city we can see that it would be greatly reduced.  In SimCity 4 it's not uncomon to have cities with hundreds of thousands of inhabitants and sometimes millions.  I don't think that the Caesar IV game engine could really handle that and still give good performance unless the population is done in a very abstract way.  At least not if any detail is implemented such as mass amounts of people and cars running around the cities such that SimCity 4 has currently.  I think the main difficulty for veteran hard core SimCity 4 players will be to be able to grasp the concept that their cities will not be represented as very large metropolisis but rather very small cities.

Of course this is just my guess, and only time will tell what the game is really like.  Im pretty sure we will see marketing speak saying that the cities will be large holding hundreds of thousands of inhabitants but we'll have to wait and see how Tilted Mills implements that.

If we look at the game City Life, we can see what happens to a modern day city building game that goes to 3D.  They attempted to implement it like SimCity 4 where you have a much larger land mass overall but played on a much smaller individual land mass at any one time.  But the buildings and what not in 3D are substantially larger then those that are drawn in 2D sprites, so they take up more space and thus make it look like we have a much smaller area to play on as well as a smaller city overall.

Even though I don't have much faith in SimCity: Societies being as grand scale as SimCity 4, it still might be an okay game as long as they don't reduce too many of the micromanagement features that are in SimCity 4.  Sadly, history has shown that many features are removed when a game goes to 3D because of the resources spent on converting to 3D.  If they are able to retain much of what makes SimCity 4 great, and add their own layers of features on top, then we might end up with a really great game.  And of course I want to play as Mayor, so I don't wish to get involved on the person to person level with the inhabitants of the city

I truly believe at this point (with no extra information being released) that what we will be looking at will be a Ceasar 4 with modern day buildings.  You can look at Caesar IV and at SimCity 4 and see the similarities of what is in it to be able to guess that it's a conversion of buildings and adding a few features to bring Caesar IV into SimCity: Societies.

Buildings: In Caesar IV we have multiple buildings for most residential buildings.  So it shouldnt be hard for them to add a switch for people to decide which culture building they are buidlign.
Advisors: Caesar IV has the basics of the advisors that were in SimCity 4 so no great stretch there to implement it into SimCity: Societies.
Roads: Many people have already started to complain that roads are still on the diagonal grid system which is what Caesar IV used, so I would anticipate that SimCity: Societies will continue to use this diagonal road system.

I guess time will tell, but it seems to me at this point in time with no or little information being released that SimCity: Societies will be Caesar IV with modern day buildings.  Good or Bad, I don't know at this point, but I think that more then likely this will be a game that I HAVE to have a demo for before I purchase it so that I know what is included in the game that I felt was what made SimCity 4 a great and interesting game to play.  And to be honest, I'd really hate to see SimCity: Societies turn into a Caesar IV with modern buildings.  I believe TM would have been better off doing a Pharaoah or a Zeus in 3D before tackling a game such as SimCity which has a rabid and huge fan base.

Sadly, if SimCity: Societies doesnt sell well, then EA will just assume that the interest isn't there in continuing the SC franchise instead of realizing that perhaps SimCity: Societies didn't actually contain all the things that the rabid fanbase that still play SimCity 4 wanted in the next SimCity game.

I'm not holding my breath at this point, but I am watching with anticipation.

EDIT The more I think of this, the more I realize that I really REALLY don't want a Ceasar 4 with modern day buildings.  Caesar IV was good and all, but I don't think it would translate well to a successor of the SimCity franchise.  Nor do I think that SimCity: Societies would have a huge fan base like what is of SimCity 4 currently.  SimCity 4 has great modibility, Caesar IV has next to none and they don't even officially support their editor.  TM really hasn't been known to make extremely moddable games which is one of the things that makes SimCity 4 such a fun game to play.  If TM implements granny 3D files for the buildings then my prediction is that the game is dead in the water as it won't offer players enough control of what they are used to in SimCity 4 and few if any are willing to spend $12,000 on the granny 3D editiing program to build new buildings for the community of players.

[MaxBeta]

   I agree with the logical analysis of the players attitudes..and the reaction being displayed.  It's what can be expected IMO..and has happened this way since I can remember.

When there's a "merging" of two communities it's bad enough.. merge TWO games philosophies and you create outbursts of emotional mayhelm..as we are witnessing over on TM's site.

I can't divulge any specifics..but CB's comment about needing the most powerful gaming PC to run TM games is and will be a valid assertion.  They have the mindset that the future player will accept the fact that only the Best Hardware will run the Best most innovative games.

It may appear to be an Elite group now.. but those who really value what the appearance of their games delivers..will have to move into this area of Power gaming Requirements.  Thus I've invested in the best presently available..and not the first time..nor the last I suspect.   

I hope all the SimCity players come to some resolve that their game is Evolving..and the Caesar players recognize that TM has to continue to Work ..and do what they know best within their Game creation expertise.  Hey.. we are ALL getting a NEW game..  so why complain before it hits the shelves..afterwards we can all assess what the strengths and weaknesses ..rate it Good or Not.  Hope this makes some sense..it is sort of off the top of my head opinion.     

[pad11]

I think both of you encapsulated my deuling feelings on this issue.

Yes, on the one hand, I do NOT believe this game is going to be in the vein of SimCity 4.

On the other hand, I have yet to be disappointed by an Impressions/TM game (although Zeus kind of put me off a bit).

The one problem, as CB puts it, is that fans of SimCity don't WANT a different game.  They want a better/3D SimCity 4.

The other problem, as Max puts it, is that fans of BOTH SC and TM don't WANT to merge their philosophies as they very well MAY be mutually exclusive....

Time will tell...since I'm not HARDCORE SC, I believe that I'll just happily wait for yet another city builder!!

later,
pat!

[MaxBeta]

   Good point pat!!   "..not HARDCORE SC"

Neither am I..past or present.   I do recall all the fuss when Zeus was being developed.. "cartoony..BOLD colors....etc"  We all survived to go on to Emperor and CotN..and finally Caesar 4.  So much for all the complaining..

I still view it as a NEW game..with innovative NEW things to see and figure out how it works.  A new gaming adventure..for me, and hopefully others will resolve themselves to think the same..and give this whole subject a fair shake.   

[crossmr]

When it comes to this kind of change, its purely a marketing ideal. We all know EA has been spinning off and marketing The Sims until its blue in the face. The first one was ridiculously popular and the rest of their products really aren't making them a lot of money.

Someone somewhere deep within EA probably said this type of change would make the game more "Accessible", which means more sales. They have a huge customer base with The Sims and they wanted to tap that to make a simcity game.

[pad11]

crossmr!  Welcome to the forum!!!  Make sure you check around and pop into any of the other games you may play, we're always keen on new members and their feelings on all the different games we play!

I agree that this was definitely a move by EA to tap into a different audience...I've said it before..they should have said 'this is not SC5, it's a new direction for the series...don't panic, SC5 is still being formlated.'

If they had done that, then this would be a win/win. As a big fan of TMs games, I'm looking forward to it very much!

And again, welcome!!!!

later,
pat!

[crossmr]

crossmr!  Welcome to the forum!!!  Make sure you check around and pop into any of the other games you may play, we're always keen on new members and their feelings on all the different games we play!

I agree that this was definitely a move by EA to tap into a different audience...I've said it before..they should have said 'this is not SC5, it's a new direction for the series...don't panic, SC5 is still being formlated.'

If they had done that, then this would be a win/win. As a big fan of TMs games, I'm looking forward to it very much!

And again, welcome!!!!

later,
pat!

Thanks I actually spent quite a bit of time on the civcityrome forums when it came out. That is how I found my way here, someone replied to a year old thread.

I had heard that as of last november they were working on SC5, so it may still be in the works. They usually like to work on them (the maxis guys) for a while before they really start to talk about them though.

[MaxBeta]

  Hi crossmr  ...I second pad11's... Welcome to the forum!!! 

Not being a SimCity player I feel that I'm not bias in either way..  I do hope that TM's spin on the title does offer a good playable game.. one that can be appreciated on its own merit.

I hate to see discent in the ranks of PC players no matter what the issue.. Devs are hard pressed to keep on making Win/based games...when there is more profit in XBox and PS2 formats..just because the majority of retail is tuned for exploiting that customer.

So my thought for all concerned is that we do not gripe our way into extinction.. if we stay positive and faithful to titles we've enjoyed over the years.  Then it will give some assurance that we PC players will have more games in our respective futures.

My opinion of course, and another way of looking at part of the BIG picture..

Thanks again for posting in City Builders Forums 

[AVALONIA]

hello all 

I have played all simcity games from simcity1 to simcity4 and now that simcity societies will be out after 11/13/07 and I will have the chance to play the  latest version of simcity game.  and what I have seen in pictures and videos I like what I see , I went to E3 this year and london game expo allso and the one in germany also.  I may go to the one in tokyo also.










thanks