I'm baaaaa-aaack (with Win 7 questions)!

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[Lengo]

Be afraid. Be very afraid. Lengo is back at least temporarily.

I'm ready to take the Win 7 plunge. I need to access more memory (probably 8 GB). The reason: Precompiled sections of animations can get very large (over 1 GB) when making videos, and I'm still running a single core processor (ugh!). Having access to more memory and a multi-core processor would be a big help.

Will get Win 7 Professional, because it can run in 'XP' mode. Can get this through a relative for way cheap (like $79). He's a project manager for Hewlett Packard.

Many of my games are not even listed on the Win 7 compatibility list. I *think* that they all will run if I set them to open in XP mode. That makes sense to me. Am I correct? Has anyone had failures to get 32 bit games to run in XP mode?

Also, I have two options. I can run an AMD Phenom X4 in my current board (up to a AM2+ socket) with DDR2, or run an AMD Athlon II X4 Propus with DDR2 or DDR3 on a new mainboard (an AM3 socket). Which option is better in the long run? The Phenom II in an AM2+ socket with DDR2, or the Athlon II Propus with DDR2, or a Propus with DDR3?

I'd rather have the Athlon II Propus than a Phenom. The Athlon II Propus has been around a long time and it has proven itself to be long lasting and well built.

Lastly, if I go all the way with this and buy a new mainboard and a new video card, The video card I'm looking at is a Geforce 240 Gt with 1 GB of DDR3. How much improvement can I expect in framerates with this over my current Geforce GT 680? Is a 240 GT pretty good? I can't afford a 400 or 500 series Geforce card. They are much too expensive.

So whadaya think? What's the best way to go?

Sidebar: I also went looking at new cases. Mine is over 20 years old and I'm tired of looking at it. I found a super-duper Xian LI that has exceptional features that make it very easy to work on. It's a tool-less design, save for removing the mounting panel for the mainboard (a really big plus). The only problem with it is that it is black. Hell! All cases are black now days! But the Xian Li cases all feature a removable mainboard plate and this is one feature I already have and don't want to give up. Take a look at it here, especially the pictures of the insides. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112154 Nice design, eh? Three inch drives go in sideways, and there's a channel for routing all wiring.

p.s. When looking at cases, boy! Did I see some ugly looking ones!

[City Builder]

Be forwarned, the XP Mode that Win 7 uses, is an emulated mode, it's good for things like business software.  I've tried it multiple times on my computer to try to run some older games that won't run under windows 7 and if they do run they are super laggy and basically unplayable.  Even using programs like Adobe GoLive web authoring software in win 7 XP mode is a bother, it's super laggy moving windows around the screen.  If I remember correctly I read something from Microsoft saying that it was designed with business users in mind so that they could run their older XP applications, but I've never seen anybody mention gaming using the XP mode.

There is a difference however between XP Compatibility Mode and the XP Mode that Win 7 pro can use, many times just setting the compatiblity of the game to XP Service Pack 3 gets the game to run, but there are some games that are just outright buggers and won't run, even some Microsoft Game Studios titles refuse to run on Windows 7.

I think my board is an AM3 socket, though I can't be positive as I've forgotten for sure.  It's using an AMD Phenom II 965 Black edition X4 with 8GB ram and runs like a champ.

If you can stretch the budget, try to find a good deal on an Nvidia 275 GTX, Crowebird turned me on to one and I'm glad that I bought it, it runs like a champ as long as I bump up the fan speed to keep it below 80°c

I'm not sure about the CPU's that you've listed, what GHz are they running at?  Plus I've not any knowledge at all about the Propus, Personally I'd go with the newest one with the most CPU's on it (i.e. x4)  I had the first Phenom II and though some people liked to bash it for gaming once I downloaded a user made patch that unlocked the CPU that Microsoft and or AMD had locked, it was then able to run at it's full potential where I was able to really see how well games could run on it.

As far as the Lian Li case is concerned, it seems to me that $89.00 is not a bad price for it.  My personal flavor of cases that I enjoy right now are the Thermaltake cases, but they're about double that price when I bought my (sorry, can't remember what model the case is, but it's jumbo and has a massive pie  plate sized fan on the side door to keep everything cool as well as a jumbo fan on the top of the case to exhaust out the hot air and does an pretty good job of keeping the air moving in and out in the case.  But the big fan on the side door means it puts out a lot of dust into the case since there is no filter on any of the fans, so more maintenance to keep it clean inside, especially the CPU which gets a good majority of the dust bunnies jumping all over it.

There is one case that I almost bought, it's a clear plexiglass model and is open construction, so everything is out in the open and plainly visible, it's cooling consists of a jumbo pie plate sized fan on the very top that blows down onto the mainboard and it's components, however to me that looked like a total dust magnet so I decided to at least hide the dusty components inside of the thermaltake case that I bought earlier this year (or maybe it was last year).

As far as the mainboard removable plate, well.... To me once I've installed the mainboard, it's very rare that I would need to take it completely out again, so for me it wouldn't be a feature that I'd use much at all other than the first installation of the main board.

Make sure the case is large enough to be able to fit todays jumbo sized graphics cards, some are too small for them to fit properly.  Also plan on buying 90° sata cables (if you are using sata hdd) since the side mount hdd cages often require a 90° sata cable to prevent the side door from squashing the regular cables.  UNLESS... Unless the cables hook up from the side of the computer where you don't normally open the side door, in which case the straight sata cables seem to work best.  Hell disregard this until you see how the hdd's go into that side cage so that you don't waste any money.

[Lengo]

......

There is a difference however between XP Compatibility Mode and the XP Mode that Win 7 pro can use, many times just setting the compatiblity of the game to XP Service Pack 3 gets the game to run, but there are some games that are just outright buggers and won't run, even some Microsoft Game Studios titles refuse to run on Windows 7.

Erm, that's what I meant. And it sucks that Age of Empires II won't run on their own platform. Like, how stoopid!

I think my board is an AM3 socket, though I can't be positive as I've forgotten for sure.  It's using an AMD Phenom II 965 Black edition X4 with 8GB ram and runs like a champ.

WHAT!  I thought you were an Intel i guy. Welcome to the world of AMD. I like 'em. They's cheaper. And overall, they perform very nicely.

If you can stretch the budget, try to find a good deal on an Nvidia 275 GTX, Crowebird turned me on to one and I'm glad that I bought it, it runs like a champ as long as I bump up the fan speed to keep it below 80°c

Will look into that, but a new vid card is the last thing on my list. First, and most important, is the multi-core processor. Second is the memory. Then there's Win 7. The rest is just wishful thinking.

I'm not sure about the CPU's that you've listed, what GHz are they running at?  Plus I've not any knowledge at all about the Propus, Personally I'd go with the newest one with the most CPU's on it (i.e. x4)  I had the first Phenom II and though some people liked to bash it for gaming once I downloaded a user made patch that unlocked the CPU that Microsoft and or AMD had locked, it was then able to run at it's full potential where I was able to really see how well games could run on it.

The Athlon II Propus runs at 3.0 GHz. The Phenom is 2.8. The Propus processor is more of a business type of processor, and it excels at movie making and Photoshop. It is held in high regard. Search for Propus Review on Google and you'll find out all about it.

As far as the Lian Li case is concerned, it seems to me that $89.00 is not a bad price for it.  My personal flavor of cases that I enjoy right now are the Thermaltake cases, but they're about double that price when I bought my (sorry, can't remember what model the case is, but it's jumbo and has a massive pie  plate sized fan on the side door to keep everything cool as well as a jumbo fan on the top of the case to exhaust out the hot air and does an pretty good job of keeping the air moving in and out in the case.  But the big fan on the side door means it puts out a lot of dust into the case since there is no filter on any of the fans, so more maintenance to keep it clean inside, especially the CPU which gets a good majority of the dust bunnies jumping all over it.

The Xian Li's come with one 120 mm fan and filters for two. The one installed is on the back. The space for the one in front has the filter, but the fan costs extra.

There is one case that I almost bought, it's a clear plexiglass model and is open construction, so everything is out in the open and plainly visible, it's cooling consists of a jumbo pie plate sized fan on the very top that blows down onto the mainboard and it's components, however to me that looked like a total dust magnet so I decided to at least hide the dusty components inside of the thermaltake case that I bought earlier this year (or maybe it was last year).

Just say no to plexiglass or those clear side panels. Hide the dust bunnnies. And say no to blinking LED fans too. They's just plain foolish, and accomplish nothing.

As far as the mainboard removable plate, well.... To me once I've installed the mainboard, it's very rare that I would need to take it completely out again, so for me it wouldn't be a feature that I'd use much at all other than the first installation of the main board.

You don't know what you're missing! It is soooo much easier to install new or different memory, or install a new processor. You do this outside of the case, not inside. It makes life a lot easier.  A LOT easier!

Make sure the case is large enough to be able to fit todays jumbo sized graphics cards, some are too small for them to fit properly.  Also plan on buying 90° sata cables (if you are using sata hdd) since the side mount hdd cages often require a 90° sata cable to prevent the side door from squashing the regular cables.  UNLESS... Unless the cables hook up from the side of the computer where you don't normally open the side door, in which case the straight sata cables seem to work best.  Hell disregard this until you see how the hdd's go into that side cage so that you don't waste any money.

No the cables face you, so thanks for the tip about the 90 degree cables.

You are right. I should check the dimensions for the inside. But an ATX mainboard  is 9.5 inches wide, so m'thinks there's adequate room. I'll double check, though, on Xian Li's site.

Now, about my mouse. It's discontinued! DAMN! I use the Logitech MX 400. It fits me PERFECTLY. Thankfully, I found two new ones by accident. Have made an offer on one. If the seller accepts, I gotta buy it, but don't have the money now. But I gotta get a replacement.  And if I had my way, I'd buy both of them. I don't like no other mouse! Well... except for Mickey. 

Okay, so I'll look for the Geforce 275 GTX. Thanks. And thanks for the tip about the 90 degree SATA cables.

I forgot to ask one other thing. What do you guys recommend for an email program? I would LIKE to have one that is as easy to use as Outlook Express, but I really want one with a spell checker.

[City Builder]

As far as mice go, I need to (like to) use the Logitech Performance MX mouse, it has a rechargable and replaceable battery (a simple NimH AA batter) inside of it and has the Logitech smooth scroll (can't do without it now), it's down side is that it's usually $99 but I found it at best buy today for $79 and needed a new one as I chew through mice like a rat through cheese, about every 6 months or so the left mouse button goes wonky on me and starts to release even though I'm holding down the button, but I can't find any other brand to replace it with the smooth scroll and wireless.

As far as email goes, I'm using Gmail so it's my web browser, I love their anti spam stuff as I don't need to set any filters up, it just works and has caught about 99.99% of spam and never caught legitimate email and marked it as spam.  Unlike Hotmail that I get 99.99% of spam in my inbox, and 99.99% of legitimate email marked as spam and stuffed into the spam box.  If I wasn't using Gmail then I'd be using Outlook and or Windows Mail.

[Lengo]

The Geforce 275 is too pricey. I can't afford one. Also, bad news. An Athlon II or Phenom will NOT go on my present mainboard, so I gotta buy one. I guess I'll go with a mainboard that uses DDR2 'cause DDR2 is cheaper than DDR3, and I'm gonna go with the Athlon II Propus 640 (3.0 GHz). The total for the mainboard and processor is $184. I can get the extra memory and Win 7 later. I already have 4 GB of DDR2 and it's working fine, so I'll get Win 7 pro and 8 Gb of DDR2 later. One question though. Would I be better of buying 4 sticks of 2 Gb, or 2 sticks of 4 Gb?

I found a Geforce 260 GTX and it only costs $139. I'll get that later, and I'll get the case later too.

At any rate, I'll be happy just to have more than one core. That's a start. The Athlon and DDR2 won't be as fast as a Phenom and DDR3, but it'll be faster than what I already have and I'm pretty happy with what I already have.  

[crowebird]

I am a huge fan of the 275 I only wish I bought two when I got mine... I can't find my matching card anymore... but it sounds like you are throwing together a pretty good system.  If you are going to invest in the graphics card, I highly recommend you bump it up to the 275.  In your current configuration your graphics card would probably be the bottleneck and for about $100 more you will have a card that can get you through pretty much anything (even if nothing intensive, you will be able to crank almost everything you play).

Since you are making the investment, I don't see why not :P

As for memory, more sticks I believe causes a little damper in performance, so you will see better performance out of 2 4gb sticks vs. 4 2gb sticks, also less sticks are wanted if you plan to OC.  However 2 4gb sticks will probably be more expensive, and I can't tell you how noticeable the performance hit will be, as I don't know.

[Lengo]

Indeed, the FPS for a 275 GTX rock! But these are priced in the $360 - $280 range. Perhaps next year they'll drop, but I'm wanting something in the $150 range. I'm gonna check out the 900 series. I dunno if these handle dX 11 like the 275 does, but I guess I'll find out.

I put a 460 GT in my wish list. It's a higher series so I thought it would perform better, but the FPS it cranks are worse than my 760 GTX, so that has been removed. I'm in no hurry on a g-card, so I have plenty of time to research them.

I thnik you're right on 2x4 GB vs. 4x2 GB ram. It sounds logical that the northbridge would struggle less. The price differnece is negligible. Either way runs about $135. Also, there's more upgrade potential. The mainboard I've chosen has four slots, so if I get 4GB, I can eventually (if necessary), take my system to 16 GB. . I'm more worried about Win 7's capability. Win 7 already rules out some older games and software. This is 'new and improved'? I'm not so sure about that. However, at least a 64 bit system can access this much memory. But the best improvement I expect to see will probably come from having multiple cores. Multi-threaded software will perform much better, and these include Photoshop CSx and my video making software. I will shave minutes off of compiling, not just seconds, and editing will go a lot more smoothly even with less than 4 GB using Win XP, so these two factors are my first concern.

I already ordered and received a high-tech gaming mouse pad. It is the Razer 'Control' rubber pad. It does track pettry well, but not as good as placing my mouse on no pad at all. And it's fuggin uGlY It looks like somebody threw up on it. I thnik I'd be better off making my own out of hardwood. It would track better and look a lot nicer. I have access to a wood working shop at the senior center, so I might try making my own.

Thaks fo the advice. I'll keep the 275 in mind when it becomes time, and I'll get the 2x4GB mem so I can upgrade it later if I need to.

[crowebird]

 Hmm, 280 seems high for the 275, especially since it has been out awhile.  Are you looking at a 512 mb or 1024? I think I got mine for 250-300 (can't remember exactly), and that was about a year ago. but I understand the price, I usually have s set amount when I build a new rig and try to not go over by much.

As far as windows 7 goes it works great, as I can still run age of empires ii

[Virmin]

I haven't been in touch with the newest hardware in a couple years, but in the past it has always seemed to be that the best video card (as in best performance price ratio) was always the very bottom version of the top end cards. So for instance I bought a computer back when the geforce 5000 series was new and I got a 5900xt which was only minorly (is minorly a word? its not in the spellchecker) weaker then the ultra, maybe 15% or so, but was less then half the price. Then when I put together a computer for my dad I got him the 7800 gt for the same reason. and my last computer I got the 8800 gt for the same reason again. I assume they market their cards the same now as they did then.

In my opinion the video card is the most important part of the computer so it seems like something to consider more so then the other parts. But granted I am biased since the only thing I really do on my computer is gaming. But until recently it was always hard to find a prebuilt computer that was affordable while having a descent videocard in it. They always had more processor power and ram and storage space galore but a crappy or nonexistent videocard. Which just seems like a waste since the lack of a descent video card bottlenecks the computer so much more then the other parts when it comes to most games.

Offtopic: crowe, did you ever play age of mythology? I found it a lot better then age of empires 2, although both were great.

[crowebird]

Offtopic: crowe, did you ever play age of mythology? I found it a lot better then age of empires 2, although both were great.

Yea, and as much as I love mythology, I never liked it as much as aoe ii (conquerors expansion).  That is my all time favorite and always will be, looking forward to AOE: online to get me back into it a little.